Thread: Poll: Courts Will Pick the President ??

Memories of Florida's contested 2000 presidential election and a growing number of pre-election lawsuits are making Americans skeptical about the voting process.


Poll: Americans Doubt Voting Process
By WILL LESTER

WASHINGTON (AP) - Memories of Florida's contested 2000 presidential election and a growing number of pre-election lawsuits are making Americans skeptical about a voting process they once took for granted.

Six in 10 of those surveyed in an Associated Press poll say it's likely there will not be a clear winner in the presidential race by Nov. 3 - the day after the election - and fear the results will be challenged in court. The poll was conducted for the AP by Ipsos Public Affairs.

Both Democrats and Republicans worry about the possibility of an unresolved election - though Democrats express more worries. About seven in 10 Democratic voters, 69 percent, say they think it's likely there won't be a clear winner by Election Day, while almost six in 10 Republican voters, 56 percent, say they feel that way.

With both political parties putting thousands of lawyers on call for Election Day, a majority of both Democrats and Republicans - just over half of each - expect the election results will be challenged in court. ``I read the other day that there's going to be a perfect storm,'' Jack Martin, a businessman who lives near Salt Lake City, said of the growing number of lawsuits. ``I think it's coming down to the courts. It worries me about our election system. I used to think every vote counts.''


Both parties already have filed lawsuits over a variety of complaints - from how provisional ballots are counted to alleged fraud in voter registration. Judges in several states have issued disparate rulings on provisional ballots, which are required under law for voters who show up at the polls only to find their names are not on the voter rolls.


The 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati is expected to hear arguments this week on the use of provisional ballots in Michigan. It is unclear whether the court will rule before the election.


A majority say they are confident the vote count in their own state will be accurate. Fewer than half of Democrats say they are ``very confident'' their state's vote count will be accurate, while three-fourths of Republicans feel that way.


Lori McKay, 29, a Republican from St. Louis, says she thinks election officials will get things right this time. ``After all the problems last time, I'm thinking they will do a better job,'' she said.


In the closing days of the campaign, the national parties are keeping especially close tabs on Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Iowa and New Mexico, all presidential battleground states where a challenge to a close race might be lodged Nov. 3.


Florida in 2000 turned into a political and legal ground zero over a Bush-Gore recount. After 36 days, the U.S. Supreme Court handed Bush a 537-vote victory in Florida and, thus, the presidency.


More than half in the poll, 54 percent, say they think the vote count in Florida was not fair and accurate, with Republicans overwhelmingly saying it was and Democrats overwhelmingly saying it was not. Independents say by a 2-to-1 margin that it was not fair.


Pamela Martin, a 52-year-old Democrat from Miami, says she was ``not too confident'' that 2004 will be any better in Florida than the last time around. Martin, who is black, says she heard plenty of stories about blacks who had trouble voting the last time.


Worries about politics and legal challenges far outweigh worries about terrorist attacks intended to disrupt the elections, the poll found. Just under one-third of those polled say they expect terrorists will attempt to disrupt elections.


Elections officials in many states are taking steps to improve security at polling places but are looking for ways to heighten readiness without posting armed police.


Almost half in the poll say having armed police at the polls would make them more inclined to vote, while about one in six say it would make them less inclined. Minority voters were more likely than whites to say armed police would make them less inclined to vote.


The AP-Ipsos poll of 1,000 adults, including 856 registered voters and 670 likely voters, was taken Oct. 22-24 and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points for the full sample, slightly larger for subgroups like registered voters.


AP Manager of News Surveys Trevor Tompson contributed to this report.



10/26/04 07:04




http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/...0041025IAPM124

How Groups Feel About Outcome of Election



Some demographics and details of voter worries about the upcoming presidential election. The poll was taken Oct. 22-24 of 1,000 adults and 856 registered voters and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points for the whole sample, slightly larger for subgroups:

CONFIDENCE IN VOTE COUNT IN YOUR STATE:

Men were more likely than women to say they are ``very confident'' the votes in their state will be counted accurately. College graduates were more likely than those with a high school education or less to feel ``very confident'' about the vote. Whites were more likely than minorities to feel that way, and Republicans were more likely than Democrats to have confidence in the vote.

LIKELIHOOD OF NO CLEAR WINNER:


Democrats were more likely than Republicans or independents to think there will be no clear winner. But a majority of Republicans and a majority of independents felt this would be the case.


LIKELIHOOD THAT RESULTS WILL BE CHALLENGED IN COURT:


Those with a college degree or some college were more likely to think the results would be challenged in court than those with a high school degree or less education.


ACCURATE VOTE IN FLORIDA:


Women were more likely than men to say the Florida vote count was not ``fair and accurate.'' Minorities were more likely than whites to say the vote was not fair, and Democrats were far more likely than Republicans to say the vote that gave President Bush the White House was not fair.



10/26/04 03:24

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/...41.htm&sc=1131

A Look at Lawsuits, Voting Problems

Many states are facing legal challenges over possible voting problems Nov. 2. A look at some of the developments Wednesday:

COLORADO:

The state's top election official hired a bipartisan team of lawyers to defend her in any lawsuits that might be filed over election issues. The team of two Republicans and two Democrats is aimed at avoiding any ``allegations of impropriety,'' said a spokesman for Attorney General Ken Salazar. The Democrat recused himself from representing secretary of state Donetta Davidson because he's running against Republican Pete Coors for an open Senate seat.

Two people were charged in Denver with filling out multiple voter-registration forms. Similar investigations were under way in several counties, a spokeswoman for the secretary of state's office said.


As many as 3,700 people have registered to vote in more than one Colorado county this year, nearly two-thirds of them college-age voters, the Denver Post reported. Election officials said they are working to catch double registrations but concede double voting might occur.


FLORIDA:


Broward County officials were questioning how many of the 58,000 absentee ballots they sent out Oct. 7-8 actually reached voters. Hundreds of people have called the elections office saying they never received the ballots they had requested. Democratic officials in Palm Beach County say they've heard of similar problems there, and have asked the elections supervisor to take out ads telling voters how they can still cast ballots.


IOWA:


A judge declined to rule immediately in a Republican lawsuit challenging a plan to allow Iowans to cast provisional ballots outside of their home precincts. A Polk County District judge said the suit could go forward after the state issues final election rules on Thursday.


MINNESOTA:


The state Supreme Court refused to make local officials reveal the political leanings of election judges, rejecting a Republican request that could have exposed the polling place referees to new scrutiny days before the election.


OHIO:


A Cincinnati federal judge temporarily stopped hearings on Republican challenges of thousands of voter registrations, ruling in favor of Democrats who alleged the challenges were an attempt to keep legitimate votes from being counted. About half the estimated 35,000 challenges were filed in Cuyahoga County, a Democratic stronghold.


PENNSYLVANIA:


Two servicemen serving in Iraq and Kuwait filed a federal lawsuit in Harrisburg seeking a 15-day extension for the return of overseas ballots. They contend the distribution of absentee and overseas ballots was delayed over a legal challenge to independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader's nominating petition.



10/27/04 22:47


http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/...43.htm&sc=1131

Fla. County Says Absentee Ballots Missing

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. (AP) - Up to 58,000 absentee ballots may never have reached the Broward County voters who requested them more than two weeks ago, election officials said, and state police are investigating. Hundreds of people have called the county elections office to complain that they never got their ballots. The phone system was so overwhelmed some frustrated voters could not get through.

The county election office said the problem involved ballots mailed on Oct. 7-8, though the number of those actually missing was uncertain. Some absentee ballots mailed on those dates have already been returned to be counted. ``We are trying to determine what occurred and whether there was any kind of criminal violation,'' said Paige Patterson-Hughes, spokeswoman for the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.


The county blamed the U.S. Postal Service. ``That is something beyond our control,'' Deputy Supervisor of Elections Gisela Salas said. ``We really have no idea what's going on.''


Postal officials said the post office was not to blame. ``We have employees that we assign to handle the absentee ballots that come in,'' said Enola C. Rice, a Postal Service spokeswoman in South Florida. ``So all the absentee ballots that are received by the Postal Service are processed and delivered immediately.'' Absentee voters who did not receive a ballot can request another, which officials said would be sent by overnight mail.


In 2000, Broward gave Democrat Al Gore his biggest margin among Florida counties. He received 67 percent of the vote there, while losing the state to George W. Bush by just 537 votes.



10/27/04 16:26

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/...20041026MEX06D

How many states switched from the Democrats to the GOP from '96 to 2000?
In 2000, Republican George W. Bush won the electoral votes of 11 states that Democrat Bill Clinton (news - web sites) had won in 1996.(USA TODAY research/By Paul Overberg and Juan Thomassie, USA TODAY)

The thing is..there is so much more voter cheating this time than last.. I heard on the news the other day.. that one of the counties in Oh had more people registered than the population of the county!!.. I mean come on...something is seriously wrong here.

Voter Rights vs. Voter Fraud
Wednesday, October 27, 2004
By Matt Hayes

With less than a week to go before the election, the voting problems of 2000 are beginning to figure prominently in campaign communications. A New Jersey court has just approved the use of electronic balloting, its sponsors having tried to vet out all problems and obtain court approval before the machines are ever put to use.

But there are already signs that the election of 2004 is falling apart. This year, though, the chief problem is not poorly designed ballots. It’s voter registration fraud, and those pushing it are happy to have found willing accomplices in some elected officials. If there is an area of post-election litigation we can expect to see, it will be competing charges of vote suppression and registration fraud.

America is still a country whose voting practices depend on the honesty of individuals who want to vote, and with every poll showing the presidential race as historically tight, every registration is prized. Even 2002’s Help America Vote Act, federal legislation designed to tighten up identification requirements and help more people vote, is subject to local interpretation. The problem, it seems, is the act’s mandate that the country’s election officials use their best efforts to minimize voter disenfranchisement.

And with that, many of our country’s precinct captains, state attorneys general and election commissioners are off to the races.

Though one’s honesty is the foundation of one’s ability to vote in America, the system — comprised of voter registration forms, voting rolls and polling places — is designed to offer some safeguard against fraud. The weak link is in the initial registration.

Registration fraud most often takes the form of a dishonestly completed voter registration form, a piece of paper that is almost ubiquitous in the late summer and early fall before a major election. The form maps out the basic constitutional requirements for voting in national elections: that the registrant is of the age of majority, that he or she is a U.S. citizen and that he or she is not under some disability that bars voting (such as a felony conviction).

With the Help America Vote Act, state and local officials have reached some odd conclusions about what the act requires. In Iowa last week, Attorney General Tom Miller advised election officials to accept registration forms even if voters failed to check the box on the forms that verifies that the voter is a U.S. citizen. Attorney General Miller, it seems, views voter enfranchisement as more important than the Constitution’s 14th and 15th amendments, and even Article II of Iowa’s own state constitution.

The Columbus Dispatch reported last week that illegal alien and would-be mall bomber Nuradin Abdi was registered to vote by Project ACORN and had been on the rolls for some time. In New Jersey, election officials are running ads warning first-time voters to bring proof of name and address to the polls. What this does to curb voting on false registrations filed before the last general election is unknown.

The New Jersey effort is instructive, though, because it shows the importance of the voting roll and its connection to a single location. Voting precincts can have several polling places, but individuals are normally required to return to the same polling place as long as they live in a certain voting district. This is to insure that when a person arrives at a polling place, poll workers are able to look in the roll, find the voter’s name and ask him to sign the roll again. In this sense all voting is local.

But that, too, came to an end in Iowa last week when the attorney general stated that individuals showing up in the wrong precinct will still be permitted to vote. If Iowa’s voting roll system is anything like most states, we can expect people to show up at a polling place and be permitted to vote while poll workers are unable to verify that he is even on the rolls.

What can people do?

The Voting Rights Act permits individuals a private right of action to prevent the disenfranchisement of people legally able to vote. In Iowa, we may never know if illegally cast votes determined the outcome of the election, but by doing so, those illegal ballots would have, in effect, disenfranchised legally cast votes.

It’s not beyond the realm of possibility that we will see a contest between two other titans of politics. On Nov. 3, the old stalwart Voting Rights Act, with its prohibition against disenfranchisement through vote fraud, is set to square off against the wide voter enfranchisement of new kid Help America Vote Act.



Matt Hayes began practicing immigration law shortly after graduating from Pace University School of Law in 1994, representing new immigrants in civil and criminal matters. He is the author of the soon to be published, "The New Immigration Law and Practice."


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136847,00.html

Originally Posted by janelle

UUUUG I hope the polls are wrong and it's not a close election. Seems like they can string it out forever. I know, let Bush stay president until all is decided---maybe one or two years. But like Tech says, Bush will be re-elected.

ITA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!