Thread: Liberal Lies About National Health Care: Second in a Series (Collect All 10!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmyers
There's too many people concerned about the healthcare plan for there not to be a reason. Even the Democrats that support Obama have concerns. Its not just a bunch of irrational people making things up like Obama and others want to believe. If that many people have concerns maybe Obama should spend more time trying to make his healthcare program easier to understand instead of trying to discredit the people that have concerns. That would go a lot further in getting his healthcare program approved.

Originally Posted by hesnothere

Rational concerns, absolutely. But this:

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Seniors and the disabled "will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care."
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Page 992 of the health care bill will "establish school-based 'health' clinics. Your children will be indoctrinated and your grandchildren may be aborted!"
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"All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free health care services."
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In the health care bill, "The 'Health Choices Commissioner' will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None."
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John Holdren, director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, "has proposed forcing abortions and putting sterilants in the drinking water to control population."
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The health care reform bill "would make it mandatory — absolutely require — that every five years people in Medicare have a required counseling session that will tell them how to end their life sooner."
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The health care reform bill -- on Page 16 -- outlaws private insurance.
All lies.

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/rulings/pants-fire/












All lies.

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/rulings/pants-fire/

Have you read the bill? I have, well a lot of it...before you call people liars and go JUST by what others opinions are check out the bill for yourself. Go right ahead, seriously....




http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...3200ih.txt.pdf

Originally Posted by hesnothere

Sorry, I don't trust the Becks, Coulters, Malkins, Hannitys, Maddows, and Oldermans who have their own agendas. Yep, I've done my OWN research, have you?

Oh yes, yes I have

To search for the bill type in H.R. 3200 http://www.gpoaccess.gov/bills/index.html

Direct link to doc. http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...3200ih.txt.pdf

Originally Posted by Bahet

I have to run out. It's orientation day for DS2's school. Please post the excerpts from the bill that state that Medicare patients will be given mandatory end of life counselling to determine if they should have their lives ended, that illegals will get free health care, and that it will be mandatory with no choice for private insurance. Thanks. I've read the bill (most of it) and didn't see that in there so maybe I was missing something.

Nope, you're not missing anything that was actually written. You're missing the distortions that cloud good judgement.

Originally Posted by Bahet

I have to run out. It's orientation day for DS2's school. Please post the excerpts from the bill that state that Medicare patients will be given mandatory end of life counselling to determine if they should have their lives ended, that illegals will get free health care, and that it will be mandatory with no choice for private insurance. Thanks. I've read the bill (most of it) and didn't see that in there so maybe I was missing something.

PG 425 Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. - End of life services
and support
PG 50 Section 152 Prohibiting Discrimination in health care

PG 16 section 102 Entitled Protecting the Choice to Keep Current Coverage, the bill clearly states, "the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day" of the year the bill becomes law. As verified by the House Ways and Means Committee last week, this provision means that this health care bill itself will kill the market for private individual coverage by not allowing any new policies to be written after the public option becomes law.

Misconception

Originally Posted by galeane29

PG 16 section 102 Entitled Protecting the Choice to Keep Current Coverage, the bill clearly states, "the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day" of the year the bill becomes law. As verified by the House Ways and Means Committee last week, this provision means that this health care bill itself will kill the market for private individual coverage by not allowing any new policies to be written after the public option becomes law.

Actuality

The health care reform bill -- on Page 16 -- outlaws private insurance.
Investor's Business Daily on Wednesday, July 15th, 2009 in an editorial.

Private health insurance not banned on page 16 of the House bill
Bookmark this story:
Buzz up!ShareThisWe got several e-mails from readers asking if new health care legislation in the U.S. House of Representatives bans private health insurance for individuals. We tracked the statement back to its source, an editorial from Investor's Business Daily.

"It didn't take long to run into an 'uh-oh' moment when reading the House's 'health care for all Americans' bill," the editorial says. "Right there on Page 16 is a provision making individual private medical insurance illegal."

The editorial continues, "Under the Orwellian header of 'Protecting The Choice To Keep Current Coverage,' the 'Limitation On New Enrollment' section of the bill clearly states: 'Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day' of the year the legislation becomes law."

The editorial, published July 15, 2009, adds, "So we can all keep our coverage, just as promised — with, of course, exceptions: Those who currently have private individual coverage won't be able to change it. Nor will those who leave a company to work for themselves be free to buy individual plans from private carriers."

Since then, the allegation about Page 16 has been repeated in many blogs and by at least one member of Congress.

We read the section of the bill to which Investor's Business Daily referred, as well as a summary of the legislation provided by the House Ways and Means committee. While the quotation is correct, it's taken out of context.

Individual private health insurance means coverage that someone buys on his or her own from a private company. In other words, it's for people who can't get coverage through work or some other group, and the rates tend to be much higher.

Under the House bill, companies that offer insurance to individuals will do it through an exchange, where the government sets minimum standards for coverage. The new regulations require insurance companies to accept people even if they have previously existing conditions and to provide a minimum level of benefits, among other things.

To be sure we were reading the bill correctly, we turned to an independent health care analyst at the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation. The foundation has analyzed the major health care proposals, including those of the Republicans, providing point-by-point analysis .

Jennifer Tolbert, the foundation's principal policy analyst, told us that Page 16 doesn't outlaw private insurance. "There will be individual policies available, but people will buy those policies through the national health insurance exchange," she said.

The House bill allows for existing policies to be grandfathered in, so that people who currently have individual health insurance policies will not lose coverage. The line the editorial refers to is a clause that says the health insurance companies cannot enroll new people into the old plans.

The IDB editorial has caught the attention of some of the bill's most direct supporters. Rep. Henry Waxman, a California Democrat who is guiding the legislation through Congress, wrote a letter to the publication saying the editorial was "factually incorrect and highly misleading."

The conservative Heritage Foundation also said the editorial misread the legislation, writing on its Foundry blog, "So IDB is wrong: individual health insurance will not be outlawed." Heritage believes that the new regulations will be so onerous as to drive private insurance out of business "which is effectively the same thing." But that is a substantially different argument than what the editorial said.

President Barack Obama had the chance to personally quash the IDB editorial himself when asked about it in a conference call with left-leaning bloggers. He said he wasn't familiar with the provision, before reiterating his general commitment to not forcing people out of health insurance that they like. (Impress your friends at parties by referring to the proper section on page 16 of the bill: It's Section 102.)

In response to Waxman's letter, Investor's Business Daily says it's sticking to its guns. In a follow-up editorial, it said that private insurance offered on the exchange will be too regulated to be considered true private insurance, hence its original editorial is correct that the bill bans private insurance. This seems like a creative way of covering up a factual error, though. Many private companies are highly regulated but are still considered to be private.

The original editorial said, "Right there on Page 16 is a provision making individual private medical insurance illegal." That's not what the legislation says. When the error was pointed out, a subsequent editorial said it was still true. For perpetuating misinformation and then standing by it in the face of facts, we rate the Investor's Business Daily editorial Pants on Fire!

and that's just the first one I checked, the other 2 are also proven to be gross misrepresentations.

**Top Five Health Care Reform Lies the right wings wants you to believe **


Lie #1: President Obama wants to euthanize your grandma!!!

The truth: These accusations—of "death panels" and forced euthanasia—are, of course, flatly untrue. As an article from the Associated Press puts it: "No 'death panel' in health care bill."4 What's the real deal? Reform legislation includes a provision, supported by the AARP, to offer senior citizens access to a professional medical counselor who will provide them with information on preparing a living will and other issues facing older Americans.


Lie #2: Democrats are going to outlaw private insurance and force you into a government plan!!!

The truth: With reform, choices will increase, not decrease. Obama's reform plans will create a health insurance exchange, a one-stop shopping marketplace for affordable, high-quality insurance options.6 Included in the exchange is the public health insurance option—a nationwide plan with a broad network of providers—that will operate alongside private insurance companies, injecting competition into the market to drive quality up and costs down.

If you're happy with your coverage and doctors, you can keep them.8 But the new public plan will expand choices to millions of businesses or individuals who choose to opt into it, including many who simply can't afford health care now.


Lie #3: President Obama wants to implement Soviet-style rationing!!!


The truth: Health care reform will expand access to high-quality health insurance, and give individuals, families, and businesses more choices for coverage. Right now, big corporations decide whether to give you coverage, what doctors you get to see, and whether a particular procedure or medicine is covered—that is rationed care. And a big part of reform is to stop that.


Health care reform will do away with some of the most nefarious aspects of this rationing: discrimination for pre-existing conditions, insurers that cancel coverage when you get sick, gender discrimination, and lifetime and yearly limits on coverage. And outside of that, as noted above, reform will increase insurance options, not force anyone into a rationed situation.


Lie #4: Obama is secretly plotting to cut senior citizens' Medicare benefits!!!

The truth: Health care reform plans will not reduce Medicare benefits.10 Reform includes savings from Medicare that are unrelated to patient care—in fact, the savings comes from cutting billions of dollars in overpayments to insurance companies and eliminating waste, fraud, and abuse.

Lie #5: Obama's health care plan will bankrupt America!!!

The truth: We need health care reform now in order to prevent bankruptcy—to control spiraling costs that affect individuals, families, small businesses, and the American economy.

Right now, we spend more than $2 trillion dollars a year on health care. The average family premium is projected to rise to over $22,000 in the next decade—and each year, nearly a million people face bankruptcy because of medical expenses. Reform, with an affordable, high-quality public option that can spur competition, is necessary to bring down skyrocketing costs. Also, President Obama's reform plans would be fully paid for over 10 years and not add a penny to the deficit.