Thread: DP ? - is lethal injection inhumane ?

Originally Posted by renaissanceman

A prison will NEVER rehabilitate ANYONE!!!

I can agree with this part of your statement. Because our prison system is not made for rehabiltation.

I don't agree with the part about the robber going in with the killers and assaults and having to prove themselves, there fore becoming the assaulters and killers.

That is what you see on those TV movies about prison, and I am sure it DOES happen, just not as frequently as our TV sets would have us believe. My uncle was warden of a prison here in North Carolina, and I spoke with him about this. He said that for the most part, the inmates are trying to do there time and go home and pretty much stay to theirself. I also have several friends that are corrections officers, and they say the same thing.

But as I said I do agree that prison is not a place for rehabilitation, would be nice if it was. But from what I have seen if a man (or anyone for that matter) wants to change bad enough, they are going to rehabiltate themselves rather than wait for someone to do it for them.

View Poll Results: Do you think lethal injection inhumane ?
Yes - absolutely. 3 - 8.33%
No - far kinder then other options 23 - 63.89%
Depends on the circumstances 6 - 16.67%
Who Cares ? 4 - 11.11%

Voters: 36

Does this affect anyone's view of the DP ?
http://www.bigbigforums.com/news-inf...l#post95859115


*snort* more people voted "who cares" then "inhumane" ... what does this say about today's society ?

Court lifts stays of execution for 3 death row inmates
By MARK SHERMAN, Associated Press Writer
Mon Apr 21, 11:41 AM ET

WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court cleared the way Monday for Alabama, Mississippi and Texas to set new execution dates for three inmates who were granted last-minute reprieves by the justices last year.

The court on Monday turned down appeals from Thomas Arthur of Alabama, Earl Wesley Berry of Mississippi and Carlton Turner of Texas. The court blocked their executions last fall while it considered a challenge to Kentucky's lethal injection procedures.

The justices said those procedures are not unconstitutionally cruel, a decision that almost certainly will lead to a resumption of executions after a 7-month hiatus.

The high court's last-minute orders temporarily sparing the three inmates automatically expired when the justices denied their appeals Monday.

Seven other death row inmates also lost their appeals Monday, but they had not been facing imminent execution.

The other inmates are: Juan Velazquez in Arizona, Samuel Crowe and Joseph Williams in Georgia, Michael Taylor in Missouri, and Kenneth Biros, Richard Cooey and James Frazier in Ohio.

It is unclear whether they can mount new appeals to stop their executions, although the court's decision last week left the door open to challenging lethal injection procedures in other states where problems with administering the drugs are well documented.

Roughly three dozen states use three drugs in succession to put to sleep, paralyze and kill inmates. Critics of the procedures have said that if the first drug is administered incorrectly or in an insufficient dosage, the inmate could suffer excruciating pain from the other two drugs. But because the second drug is a paralytic, he would be unable to express his discomfort.

The states sought to proceed with the executions of Arthur, Berry and Turner in spite of the high court review in the Kentucky case. The states argued that the men had used up all their appeals.

The justices provided no explanation when they blocked the executions.

Arthur received a death sentenced for killing Troy Wicker, 35, of Muscle Shoals, Ala., in 1982. The victim's wife, Judy Wicker, testified she had sex with Arthur and paid him $10,000 to kill her husband, who was shot in the face as he lay in bed.

Berry was sentenced to death for the 1987 murder of Mary Bounds. Bounds was beaten to death after leaving her weekly church choir practice, and her body was found just off a Chickasaw County road near Houston, Miss.

Turner, of Dallas, is facing the death penalty for killing his parents in 1998.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080421/..._l0c24V99H2ocA

I do not believe in the death penalty at all (because it's not punishment as far as I am concerned... anyone can find God and if they truly mean it spend the rest of eternity in Heaven. Which is fine... but a true punishment would be to sit in a cell w/ no contact from the outside world in any manner would be far worse than death, in my opinion.

And besides, the "eye for an eye" scripture is in the old testament, which we are not supposed to live by any more. And my favorite quote in the world "an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind" (if you must live by it then you must also realize that it covers all offenses and not just murder) by Gandhi.


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I know it hasn't been mentioned yet (or maybe it has, I didn't read all the posts)... but just in case someone says they believe in it due to it being cheaper to kill them rather than house them... do a google search, it's actually far more expensive.

I know it hasn't been mentioned yet (or maybe it has, I didn't read all the posts)... but just in case someone says they believe in it due to it being cheaper to kill them rather than house them... do a google search, it's actually far more expensive.

It is only "far more expensive" because they are required to appeal a DS as soon as it is handed down by the JUDGE AND JURY. The appeals go on and on and on ... twenty five and thirty years are no uncommon ... and the STATE which sought the conviction must pay for the appeals process.

(if you must live by it then you must also realize that it covers all offenses and not just murder)

To my knowledge the only crimes available to seek the DP are murders - usually only the most heinious - child rape in certain states and treason.

No, it is not far more expensive because you are required to appeal it. There have and probably will be again cases in which the inmate has refused appeals and the judge has allowed it. It is true that 25 to 30 years is not uncommon (I am well researched), but if we're going to house them for that long anyways WITHOUT killing them then it would be cheaper to take away all forms of contact from the outside world and let them just sit there all day long. They also aren't the only ones spending the states money for appeals. Even ppl not on DP appeal, ppl just never talk about them cause they pretty much don't cost anything.

And as far as the other quote you responded to... I was simply saying that God did not intend for it to only be used for murder. You can't throw that quote out every time you want to see someone "fry" and then steal a song off the internet and consider it ok because you didn't kill anyone. I am well aware of the fact that murder is one of the only crimes the DP is applied to.

The trials themselves can cost sometimes 10 times the cost of a non capital murder trial.

http://www.progress.org/death05.htm

COST OF THE DEATH PENALTY - Various state governments estimate that a single death penalty case, from the point of arrest to execution, ranges from $1 million to $3 million, and could be as high as $7 million per case. However, cases resulting in life imprisonment average approximately $500,000, including the cost of incarceration.

http://www.ncadp.org/index.cfm?content=5

It costs far more to execute a person than to keep him or her in prison for life. A recent New Jersey Policy Perspectives report concluded that the state's death penalty has cost taxpayers $253 million since 1983, a figure that is over and above the costs that would have been incurred had the state utilized a sentence of life without parole instead of death. "From a strictly financial perspective, it is hard to reach a conclusion other than this: New Jersey taxpayers over the last 23 years have paid more than a quarter billion dollars on a capital punishment system that has executed no one," the report concluded. Michael Murphy, former Morris County, NJ prosecutor, remarked: "If you were to ask me how $11 million a year could best protect the people of New Jersey, I would tell you by giving the law enforcement community more resources. I'm not interested in hypothetical or abstractions, I want the tools for law enforcement to do their job, and $11 million can buy a lot of tools."

http://www.ncadp.org/index.cfm?content=24

Cost

The Economics of Capital Punishment

THE CONTROVERSY:

* It is nearly impossible to place an exact price on a death penalty system, as is the case for life imprisonment. Death penalty systems that execute quickly, inevitably cost less than other systems that allow more careful post-conviction procedures to take place.
* Many studies that have found the death penalty to be MORE expensive only take into account one case, or a few cases and compare them to similar life imprisonment cases. These studies do not take into account the numerous cases that begin with a death sentence and end with a commuted sentence, with all of the trial and appeals costs of a death penalty case, as well as all of the prison costs of a life case.
* When analyzing the death penalty’s costs, one must look at the system as a whole, and decide whether it is more expensive to have a system where the death penalty is an option the prosecution may choose.
* The overwhelming majority of studies taken in the past decade that deal with the death penalty system as it exists in various states within the US, have found that it inevitably costs more than a system where life without parole is the harshest punishment available.
* In addition, death penalty cases accrue costs upfront, at lengthy trials and appeals while life imprisonment cases are costly over a range of an inmates life (the average is approximately 40 years). The upfront costs bear more on the state and local governments than do the long-term costs. Even if the two systems costs exactly the same amount, the burden that the states will take over a few months is much heavier than an equivalent burden spread out over half a century.

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT COSTS MORE THAN LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE:

* Various state governments estimate that a single death penalty case, from the point of arrest to execution, ranges from $1 million to $3 million per case.
* Other studies have estimated the cost to be as high as $7 million.
* Cases resulting in life imprisonment average around $500,000 each, including incarceration cost.
* 82% of cases where the prosecution sets out seeking the death sentence are converted to life without parole, meaning that they accrue death penalty-like trial costs with all the costs of a life sentence in the end.
* In Texas, where the death penalty system is “most efficient” in that the highest percentage of cases that seek the death penalty actually end with execution, the state still estimates an additional cost of $2.3 million averaged out per case for the death penalty (as opposed to life).
* In North Carolina, a study showed that the average cost per case for a system with a maximum penalty of death was $2.16 million.
* In a study conducted by Duke University, it was found that even if the death penalty system ended in execution for 100% of the defendants it sought to execute from the beginning, the extra costs would still amount to approximately $216,000 per case over a system where the maximum sentence was life without parole.


The millions of dollars spent on capital punishment cuts into resources for other community interests, such as schools, hospitals, public safety, and jobs.

http://www.fnsa.org/v1n1/dieter1.html

Other reasons to get rid of the DP.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...l=chi-news-hed

... but if we're going to house them for that long anyways WITHOUT killing them then it would be cheaper to take away all forms of contact from the outside world and let them just sit there all day long.

Then it is considered "Cruel and Unusual Punishment" and that is not allowed.

The persons on Death Row are segragated - in part - because their crimes are so violent and heinious that they would be shanked if placed with the general population. If they were segregated AS the punishment it would be appealed.... and appealed ... and appealed.

And as far as the other quote you responded to... I was simply saying that God did not intend for it to only be used for murder. You can't throw that quote out every time you want to see someone "fry" and then steal a song off the internet and consider it ok because you didn't kill anyone. I am well aware of the fact that murder is one of the only crimes the DP is applied to.

You are not seriously equating an illegal internet download to the cases of Newsom and Christian; of the Goeing family, of the victims of Derek Todd Lee ??

Originally Posted by Jolie Rouge

Originally Posted by justme23

And as far as the other quote you responded to... I was simply saying that God did not intend for it to only be used for murder. You can't throw that quote out every time you want to see someone "fry" and then steal a song off the internet and consider it ok because you didn't kill anyone. I am well aware of the fact that murder is one of the only crimes the DP is applied to.

You are not seriously equating an illegal internet download to the cases of Newsom and Christian; of the Goeing family, of the victims of Derek Todd Lee ??

It's been nearly three years since Joseph Edward Duncan III kidnapped two young siblings at their home after killing their parents and older brother. Shasta and Dylan Groene were whisked away to western Montana, where they were tortured, raped and Dylan was slain.

http://www.bigbigforums.com/vent-whi...ttle-girl.html

Channon Christian, 21 and 23-year-old Christopher Newsom were carjacked by three thugs. They were robbed and beaten, bound, gagged and blindfolded, and taken to a house where a young woman only 18 years of age, was there waiting to join the party. Once at the house, Christopher was repeatedly sodomized and gang-raped by ALL four and brutally beaten, while Channon was forced to watch and listen to his screams of agony as the evil ones laughed and drooled in their joy. Then the group turned their sights to Channon and ALL four repeatedly and brutally gang-raped and sodomized her, while Christopher was forced to watch and listen helplessly.

At some point during that Sunday, it was reported the group used a box cutter to castrate Christopher, forcing Channon to watch this unbearable torture. Then he was shot three times. At some point, Christopher was soaked with gasoline and set afire, but I can find no credible information as to when or where. Christopher was wrapped up in bedsheets and/or a comfortor and taken away by one of the thugs to be dumped nearby. Police have clearly stated their belief that Christopher was dead by nightfall.

Meanwhile, the remaining four continued to rape, beat, sodomize and urinate upon Channon repeatedly, and they did so throughout Sunday and late into the night before Monday’s dawn. They sprayed a household disenfectant into her mouth and other orifices – not to poison or kill her, but to try and destroy their DNA evidence. The evils used the same box cutter to completely sever one of her breasts, apparently while she was still alive. She may have been strangled and she was certainly set afire. Then Channon was completely dismembered, her body parts thrown into trash bags. And the incarnates of evil scattered to the four winds.


http://www.bigbigforums.com/news-inf...ristian+Newsom

This thread covers the activities of TWO serial killers - Derek Todd Lee connected with the deaths of eight women and Sean Vincent Gillis linked to at least four although he has confessed to thirteen...

http://www.bigbigforums.com/news-inf...+Serial+Killer

No... I am not comparing the two. I am saying if a person (in their every day life) is going to apply something that it needs to be applied across the board and not just when it is convenient for them.

As far as it being cruel and unusual... GOOD. Death is easy... hell, at some point almost all of them want to just "get it over with". Punishment is SUPPOSED to be hard... as far as I'm concerned, once it becomes something they WANT, then it's no longer punishment... which is the REAL reason I don't agree w/ the DP... not because I find it cruel and unusual... because I don't find it cruel enough. I am a strong believer in God and I also know that most of these ppl seek God out and I'd bet a large number of them are even genuine about it... I'd rather see them actually punished by being cut off from the free world in every way possible until they die of natural causes before they get to spend Eternity w/ the Good Lord. My debate is never really about money... you just happened to pick the one sentence (which was a side thought) out of my response. And who really cares if they appeal numerous times... they all (even those not on DP) do it over and over until they get out or exhaust them all anyways. So it's not like it would be an extra cost that we aren't already paying.

Just because they are locked up doesn't make them "safe" - these "men" were all serving life w/o parole and felt they had nothing to lose. This article discusses the murder of Knapp but not the rape and beatings of another guard whcih is a serperate case.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...pagewanted=all

http://www.ktbs.com/news/Caddo-prose...a-guard-10963/